From oldsma@pobox.com Mon Mar  1 12:16:40 1999
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:30:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Manny Olds <oldsma@pobox.com>
To: asatru-FORN_SED@onelist.com
Subject: NNV [was Re: Odhinnist vs. Asatruar]

On Sun, 28 Feb 1999, James Stonehouse wrote:

 ) When we talk about the Nine Noble Virtues (not so much spelled out in
 ) the eddas etc as distilled from them:) we are making statements that we
 ) aspire to live by the cultural maxims of the Teutonic peoples - be they
 ) Norse or other of the Germanic groups...

Well, not even "distilled" from the lore. As far as I can tell, the NNV
are a carelessly-designed mishmash of heathen virtues, christian virtues,
and fantasy wish fulfillment. 

For example, "Industriousness" is ridiculous because (e.g.) Tacitus
explicitly remarks that the noble Teutons were quite indolent unless
spurred to action by some need. If you were distilling from the lore, you
would come up with a "virtue" that said it was stupid to wear yourself out
on makework.

"Self-reliance" is pretty much nonsense, too, if you are looking at the
lore. You might get out "self-responsibility" or something like that, but
with a big caveat about the workings of Wyrd and getting stuck with bad
luck because of what someone else in your family did.

And so on.

I think that "Courage", "Honor", and "Hospitality" are solidly based in
the lore, and cover a lot between them. You could also make a case for
something like "Active" or "Vigorous" (as opposed to passivity). The lore
also shows a high regard for someone who is innately lucky. 

There is an excellent book on this subject, written by a non-heathen
scholar: _Magic, Fate, and History: the Changing Ethos of the Vikings_, by
Rosalie H. Wax. It is out of print and never got any distribution worth
mentioning, alas. But it is an excellent before- and after-Christianity
picture of ethos as portrayed in the lore.

Wax points out that there are apparently two different systems described
in the lore: the aristocratic ideal in the heroic sagas and a more common
version exemplified by the Havamal. Although the two systems influenced
each other a lot, they are contradictory in spots. For example, Heroes
never give up, but the Havamal would comment that a corpse doesn't get any
loot.

Generally, Wax finds emphasis on virtues such as shrewdness, stubborness,
and the ability to balance loyalty and ruthlessness on a knife edge. And
on luck. By her reading of the lore, and mine, you are not likely to
extract one single, simple list. And if you did somehow, it would *not* be
the NNV, anyway.

What is most false-to-history, however, is the way that some modern
heathens embrace the NNV as a checklist to self-improvement. The whole
notion of becoming a better person is very late and very Christian. Wax
again: "When a Northman keeps a tight rein on his passions, it is not with
the hope or expectation of *becoming* something but an assertion that he
*is* something. He is not improving himself, rather he is holding to a
standard."


Manny Olds <oldsma@pobox.com> of Riverdale Park, Maryland, USA

"What is it that everyone LOVES to have the perception that they are
treated unfairly, that orlog has woven them a thin yarn? As staunch
heathen I'd say: keep composure and self-reliance. Stop moaning, stop the
water-cooler talk, live true." -- Dirk Mahling